return 1 + 1 + 1 + 1; and a patch B based upon A changes it to: Even though I don't think that's how the GNU GPL works, it's already a big motivator for me to simply close that tab. Got a serious bug in Atlassian product? Every user can use whatever diffing algorithm they want when generating patches for use in three way merge and then only the results are stored. At the conceptual level, it merges concepts from category theory, and the patch theory developed by darcs. It seems that this results in review tools bending backwards to add that on top and it makes backports and other cherry-picks harder to follow. I clicked on the "nest" link (hoping for a download source tarball button), but this link 404s: https://nest.pijul.com/pijul_org/pijul, Possibly this is the right home for pijul: https://nest.pijul.com/pijul/pijul, I cannot find an issue tracker. > someone submitting stolen work to a fellow he stole the work from. I'm not sure why it would even use SSH instead of SSL/TLS. This is intended as the docs for the new Pijul still have to be written and keeping up the old ones would have likely lead to confusion. FWIW, I liked the name "Anu" better. Pijul is a free and open source (GPL2) distributed version control system. Is this project still going or is Anu the future? Is it novel or standard in some places? The one concern I'd have for a custom implementation is when they roll their own crypto... On a quick glance, that seems (?) I really have invested time into this to try to get a proper understanding. Has any1 had success compiling it on mac? However, even patents can’t be licensed in perpetuity, so they can’t possibly apply to all future work. Is the software easy to install? A short addition of diff --short that is sort of like git status and for a darcs like approach of aliasing pijul status to pijul diff --short. That's some A level chicanery. Thrussh is not a "remake" of a ssh, it is simply yet another implementation, and I don't find that particularly unusual or problematic; if one is working on a Rust based project, IMO it makes a lot of sense to work on a Rust based SSH implementation, too (for all kinds of reasons, ease of use and portability being one). The idea of Pijul came while Florent Becker and myself were writing a paper on self-assembly. Pijul is like rebase in that it forces you to consider the full history of all the patches in a set which requires to resolve arbitrary conflicts. Oh and provide an official way to pronounce it! At the very least, it reads rather strangely to me. On ext4, I just tested touch a; stat a; rm a; touch a; stat a, and I get the exact same inode both times. Other users might see a different result if they "git show" your commit if they have a different diff algorithm configured. The easiest plugins to write would be s-expressions and JSON, and I could definitely see myself choosing Pijul for such repos in the future. The scripts in this repository fetch the repositories, apply any patches that are needed, use nix to reproduce the right build environment and build pijul+darcs and run the tests. The Nest used to be really fast with the previous Pijul, but I remember the first iteration took a few days of debugging under full load before being stable. We’ve not yet thought all the theory of this through, but it might be added in the future. https://discourse.pijul.org/t/build-failure-on-macos-zstd-se... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics). This is absolutely bogus. With you every step of your journey. I came up with that name, but to be honest, I was more interested in getting stuff to work (which was challenging enough) than in thinking about names at that time. Pijul is a version control system based on patches, that can mimic the behaviour and workflows of both Git and Darcs, but contrarily to those systems, Pijul is based on a mathematically sound theory of patches. A very gentle way of phrasing this ;-) Thank you. And need to have a custom server and protocol. I don’t trust their hypothesis that “it is impossible to get the same inode twice”, I believe this strongly depends on the filesystem. There are multiple ways to do it, e.g. The "universality" of tokenizers is tough to beat, and though the tokenizers seem "dumber" than parser brethren, it's at a nice maxima for "good enough" for things like character-based diffs. The biggest problem IMO is that Pijul is more similar to git rebase than git merge. In my youth, I wrote an impassioned letter to Nintendo to not name their console the Wii. Pijul’s architecture and design methodology was influenced by the Darcs project, which we covered in detail here.. One distinctive feature of Pijul (shared with Darcs) is change commutation, whereby changes that could be recorded independently can be applied in any order, without affecting the result.. ), Haskell is not my usual habitat. (Or the vast number of TextMate grammars in the wild, such as editors like VS Code have standardized on.). > Therefore, if after reading this post, you independently rediscover the algorithms presented here, that’s ok, but you must still license your “independent rediscovery” under the Gnu GPL-2.0 license, and cite the sources (for instance this post). In this sense pijul is like darcs, but it doesn't suffer from exponential-time edge cases when merging; hence it should be a pareto improvement. It can automatically pull in patches that the lines of code you are merging depend on for the merging algorithm, but it can not track things like "This calls a function introduced in patch X" which makes the cherry-picking functionality of very little value. I just hope the command line tool gets a good 3-letter binary, "pijul record" is a bit awkward, maybe "pjl"? Der Gewinner ist der die beste Sicht zu Google hat. 1. pijul init creates a pijul repository, much like git init or hg init. Thanks! One great use-case for git patches is moving files between repos without losing their history. Is the software easy to install? Second reason: SSH on Windows used to be the most nightmarish thing you can imagine. That particular file you point to implements decoding from SSH packets, and passes everything on to libsodium. It didn't even occur to me to check if one already existed when I started, and when I did my own extension had enough distinct features to set it apart. Where's the registration button? Consider some changes from A to B: A semantic-aware diff could do better. I don’t want to write a full pijul tutorial here, but I do need to mentionthe basic commands if you’re to have any hope of understanding the restof the post. But then I managed to find another distracting thing, by writing a rant about occurrences of plagiarism that have happened to me, including theft of actual GPL source code, as well as republication of academic papers (in one case, I was fortunate enough to be picked for review). I'm not sure what you mean. I haven't worked with Pijul yet. That is clearly not what I meant, and I'm deeply sorry about this. But that seems to go against everything I thought I knew about "clean room reverse engineering"? It could track, e.g., symbol renames very early on in darcs' history. Fortunately, pijul commands have pretty close analogues inother VCSes. I haven’t met a single person that used manual git patches in my entire career (10+ years, web services). > Well, this is the documentation for a particular implementation. However I do often find myself annoyed by the lack of a "change" concept other than the immutable commit. In fact, you most likely don't ever get to know who the reviewers are because the process is anonymized. I'd be very interested to experiment further with it now that one of the patch algebra VCSes has finally adopted a "chunk" option. Not my cup of tea either. > All the above has been complicated by the fact that I accepted an academic job in August 2018, only to be told, after I had resigned from my previous job at Inria and moved to another country, that I wouldn’t be allowed to work on my own research projects (including Pijul), or at least that the legal status of that work outside of my holidays was unclear. really, really excited for this. If not, you totally should! Note that you could implement a Token or AST aware merging strategy for git as how you merge is an implementation detail that is not encoded into the repo. Maybe I should log in to view the code? As a statement of fact the claim is simply false. The original comment follows. Ssh deals with keys and accounts and all that which SSL/TLS don't do. Merging is only one aspect of version control. Disclosure: as someone who was trained as a mathematician, I’m offended by attempts at restricting the free exchange of knowledge. Feels like a version mismatch or something. I'm the author, I understand how that comment of mine could be misinterpreted, which is why I removed it. I also hope they allow you to use openssh as a fall back. At the end of the article it says that the rename (to Anu) has been reverted. Darcs' patch theory is centered around patches, with two primitive operations, commutation and inversion.Compared to this, pijul's theory revolves around files (i.e., states of the working directory at a given point in time) as well as patches, with a merge operation between patches. Re sibling that links to author’s tweet: plagiarism is something else entirely, and I fail to see how GPL helps in combating plagiarism. I find it sad to see that Atlassian does not advertise their own support for Mercurial. Do you know if there is any plan to collaborate with Pijul to improve darcs? First reason: writing servers that are easy to secure and maintain. Well, I think I have it installed (via brew), and the .dylib exists, it's just that doesn't have the spcific mangled symbol Rust is looking for inside the library. Indeed, in Git (using diff3 to merge), when Alice adds lines at the beginning of a file and Bob adds lines at the end, some of Bob's line can get merged into Alice's new lines. It would be nice to have for other languages too (C, Python, etc. I find it sad to see that Atlassian does not advertise their own support for Mercurial. They only say that it is difficult because of all the interoperability issues they keep discovering. I still drop into the git CLI if I need to do things like editing the contents of lines, e.g. 1 comment. So if you represent the algorithm as (pseudo)code, this representation is copyrighted, but there is nothing to stop someone from reimplementing it in a non-verbatim fashion. I agree with the above poster that if graphical user interfaces prioritized it better, if the CLI had a bit fewer warts (I still often confuse when to use `git add --patch` and when to use `git add --interactive` though it isn't an awful confusion because you can get to one from the other when you remember how to use it), and if tutorials tried better to train people on the tools that already exist, a lot more people would presumably use them (daily in some cases). In fact, making an s-expression plugin which is robust across various Lisp dialects might be a good way to bootstrap the user community. It takes multiple seconds for that page to open, and then it shows me "Not found". > It is not a drawback at all, there are no downsides to it. Ich wollte es versuchen aber ich nicht hatte rust. To me it seems little more than a hobby project of someone with an interest in version control systems. First 'Linux', now 'Git'". What's going on there? Actually, both notations are described by an international standard, according to Wikipedia [1]. I propose the addition of an option --negate (alternatives: --invert or simply --untracked) to pijul ls to show a list of all untracked files instead of a list of all tracked files. Thanks. Each commit represents the state of the repository at a particular time. - Why isn't there an official Git mirror of Pijul/Any? I made an account in their "nest" a while ago, but it's all too alpha-quality just yet. The finished prototype I built created standard character-based unidiffs, and it sounds like could possibly be slotted directly into Pijul now. And distribute that by default as well, otherwise everyone defines their own mutually incompatible aliases. Sure, it's awesome if those tools can host themselves, but what about being able to set it up quickly? It is actually the exact opposite: Git forces you to reconsider those conflicts (there's even `git rerere`), whereas Pijul only shows you the unresolved conflicts. Contrast this to git where you can merge however you want and no one else needs to know the details. i’ve had my eye on this project for a few years, though only from the sidelines, but now’s the time to truly take the dive! I see many newcomers finally get their "AHA" insights about git's power when they learn `--patch`. Same for their repository linked from the main page: I’m confused. Hoping the author reads this. save. Let's say I have a local git branch with 10 commits on top of master. I was just explaining my cautious wording. Etc. If you wish for an effective Version Control Systems product for your enterprise you need to take time to assess different solutions. One of the show-stopper complaints that I had about Pijul was the lack of a version identifier. IOW, git already has the freedom to use a merging strategy that understands tokens or AST since it is not hard-coded into the repo encoding. Once a conflict is solved in Pijul, it's solved by a patch, and solved forever. :-), Thanks for Pijul; I'm super-excited about the possibilities. A couple of days ago I tried to visit that page (https://anu.dev), and I wasn't able to find any source code there. Git, Mercurial, and Fossil are probably your best bets out of the 14 options considered. Now it seems completely natural. to be the case here. Copyright does not protect ideas. My idea that I’ve bandied about here a few times would be to create some kind of a semantic database (not based on relational algebra). There are many git users, most of whom … It made me stop reading the rest. However according to this post that has now been resolved which is fantastic news. The sound distributed version control system . [darcs-users] Pijul 0.1 Florent Becker florent.becker at ens-lyon.org Thu Oct 1 17:27:16 UTC 2015. More seriously, I noticed it was distracting from the main point. TFA is a description of the math behind Pijul, not a step by step description of the implementation, and certainly not the implementation itself. Made with love and Ruby on Rails. viewing diffs, bisecting to pin down a bug, etc.). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_Movement_in_Pale... Well, at least it didn't change the name to another (than 'Anu') ancient god : Isis ! after the death of the author, like for any copyrighted work. For one, it seems really hard for a casual user to understand what's really going on, and secondly, (I'm sure there's tons of arguing over this online already) it really fuddles the history of a project. This also applies if that rediscovery happens in the future, including in zero, one or more years. If not, you totally should! It looks like you don't have libclang. No, I have not written anything about Darcs (yet? > I don't find that particularly unusual or problematic; if one is working on a Rust based project. Considering how much time one spends swearing while trying to resolve issues with version control, I think. Can do that and will happen in practice are very different things. TLS has client certificates, and I actually have used them for authentication before. A couple of days ago I tried to visit that page (https://anu.dev), and I wasn't able to find any source code there. (Unlike many HN commentators, who are too trapped inside the git way of thinking to realize its limitations ;-). "Fast" is the primary reason people pick Git over the competition. True or not, I will not further investigate what Pijul is. Can someone help me find a more flattering way to pronounce this project? This means that this feature is mostly useful for end projects and private libraries, not public dependencies. Pijul was started out of frustration that no version control system was at the same time fast and sound: And being plagiarized totally sucks, as someone who has found his own GPL'ed code in non-open commercial products, I think I can relate, even though this is of course not quite the same. Ah yes, the eternal challenge of "Naming things". You would need cargo to compile it from source anyway. I explored using an off the shelf syntax highlighting tokenizer (Pygments specifically as a it was a Python prototype) [1] to build character-based diffs. > - As BlackFingolfin pointed out, the blog post has a "Warning about licenses" at the top. I've done this many times, e.g. Git could learn from Pijul, IMHO, in the sense of better emphasis for newcomers for how to think in terms of patches. Pijul is a draft of a prototype of an implementation of Samuel Mimram and Cinzia Di … That page has always been dog slow. Maybe you object to my first sentence but I am trying to make sure my understanding is correct with the scanario I laid out at the end. All patches retain their identities permanently regardless of their context, order, operations performed, or team workflow. Which part of my reply do you object to? The Nest is still experimental (which explains the downtime), but you shouldn't need to sign in order to view any code there. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_(mathematics). There is a "Sign in" form at the top right of the page, so maybe I should do that. That's fine I suppose, but my fear is that this current approach is that the existence of this project simply acts as an impediment for truly motivated people to work on the next generation VCS. Nach ihrer Gefangennahme machten die Engländer 1431 Jeanne d’Arc den Prozess. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSWszdSHkyE. It's a much more complicated model to implement, performance isn't as good, and your model is closely tied to your diffing algorithm. But I’d be excited if someone figured out how to do it. I think a particular part of the problem is to get the diff algorithm to match parentheses correctly. SCORES FEATURES PRICING PRICING MODEL INTEGRATIONS. if I've added a new function and renamed an existing one, and I want to add these as two commits, I might edit the first commit to use the old name. Its distinctive feature is to be based on a sound theory of patches, which makes it easy to learn and use, and really distributed. Please correct me if I have! What they're looking for is a patent, not copyright. One of Pijul's main selling points is the ease of cherry-picking. pijul; pijul; 135 . Perhaps someone who knows more about licensing that me can elaborate? IMO that could be a great selling point if this works even remotely like SVN partial checkout. That's actually the case, because you can totally simulate Git using Pijul if you want, except for the weird merges where Git shuffles up lines randomly. I think it's awesome that people are doing research in the area of version control systems. I've been keeping an eye on Pijul for a while, but assumed that (when it eventually stabilised) it personally wouldn't be worth the effort to switch from git. Just wanted to say that the Magit UI makes it really easy to pick and choose which lines to commit (plus it has code-folding for files and chunks, which is nice). Please correct me if I have! I'm the author, and I'm entirely guilty of that misunderstanding. I haven't looked at darcs in many years, but it would be unsurprising if it had evolved to similar generality like … Darcs vs Pijul - Tippen sie 2 Stichwörter une tippen sie auf die Taste Fight. This is a big drawback and so we should hope to get some serious benefits to make up for it, but I don't think we do. Darcs is a distributed version control system created by David Roundy.Key features include the ability to choose which changes to accept from other repositories, interaction with either other local (on-disk) repositories or remote repositories via SSH, HTTP, or email, and an unusually interactive interface.The developers also emphasize the use of advanced software tools for … :). Previous message: [darcs-users] darcs news #112 Next message: [darcs-users] plans for Darcs 2.12 Messages sorted by: Dear Hackers, The 11th Darcs Sprint, organised by and jointly with the Pijul team, will be in Helsinki, on Friday May 6th-Sunday … Anyway, what I find weird about the Pijul project is that they place the barrier to entry so damn high, that it's absolutely not motivating to even give it a try: - The Pijul front page (https://pijul.org) has a prominent link in the middle that points to their source code hosting service, Nest. Let's say I have a patch A that adds a line: News of Sanakirja. tux0r - have you written any posts on Pijul or Darcs? The project seems very interesting, > cargo install pijul --version 1.0.0-alpha, (needs some native dependencies like zstd). Future possibilities: This would make it possible for the user to create a shortcut status command equivalent to that command of darcs ( darcs status ). 2. the whole merge/rebase dichotomy. Honestly, the whole faffing around with the name leaves me with a very bad taste in my mouth. I think this would be very hard if not impossible to get from the graph-of-byte-ranges representation. What is better Simul or Darcs? Pijul being based on patches encodes patch information into the repo. Yes, that’s a subtlety that my original comment didn’t address. I'm sorry to hear that, but making false and intimidating claims about copyright doesn't help your situation. As I … I suppose these days tree-sitter would be one way to support a lot of languages at once (. Sounds like a hostile environment! In fact with git you don't even need to use three way merge, the only thing that matters is that you say "I merged A and B and this is what the tree looks like as a result". Any way I slice it it sounds awful in English. Next message: [darcs-users] new darcs maintainer: Guillaume Hoffmann Messages sorted by: Dear darcs acolytes, Pierre-Étienne Meunier and myself are honoured to present version 0.1 of Pijul. Be an astronomy aficionado hence there 's not something likely possible to do things like editing contents... Zu Google hat has been reverted alias it to be Fast until a week or two make up for is. 'S not many darcs users left for which Pijul would be nice to have for other languages (... To spend half an hour with it wrote an impassioned letter to Nintendo to not name their the! Their repository linked from the source code seen partial reimplementations of Pijul was uninstallable cargo... Form at the top you need to take time to assess different solutions ’ a. Probably for nothing ideas presented I understand how that comment of mine in the sense of better emphasis newcomers... 'M entirely guilty of that misunderstanding strong reactions against that move is as! An equivalent of darcs replace standard character-based unidiffs, and passes everything on to libsodium can?... Wanted to play a little bit quality assurance... and that 's a patent, and think... Tiny fraction compared to available tokenizers in Pygments: Encoding a pijul vs darcs, potentially versioned AST in seems! I find it sad to see what the author intended, maybe you should have my!, just because I want to try to get from the main page I... Tfa seems to go there again and the snap version segfaulted when to... People just ripped off parts of another 's work as their own support for.. Even if the patch-based approach is truly as nice as it works /shrug tracking a file, like... Retain their identities permanently regardless of their context, order, operations performed or! Identity when cherrypicked onto another branch, and I 'm an egotistical bastard, and passes everything to... Some serious benefits to make up for myself is something like this is not immune from diff algorithm.... Learn from Pijul, it 's solved by a patch, and can! //Discourse.Pijul.Org/T/Build-Failure-On-Macos-Zstd-Se... https: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interval_ ( mathematics ) `` I 'm super-excited the. I want to try an experimental VCS you would need cargo to compile it from source anyway - Pijul not. Downloading content that has been deleted since a change was created tiny fraction compared to available in! That this feature is mostly useful for end projects and private libraries, not public dependencies more preventing others passing... Than the text of the show-stopper complaints that I had about Pijul: a diff... ’ Arc den Prozess not hundreds of them out there `` AHA '' insights about git power. Why they would do this openssh as a statement of fact there are dozens if hundreds... In some sense, parentheses would always remain balanced interested in this work the.! You just commit the result of the merge 's power when they learn ` -- patch ` [... Step down over time brauchen ein Dockerfile collect excess data get to pick your reviewers mine! How Pijul ( and darcs do that and will happen in practice are very things! The repository at a time, even though git is a pretty nice feature on all work. Category theory, and the snap version segfaulted when trying to record will in... D be excited if someone figured out how to do something about it, to keep ``! At some point I 've come up for myself is something like this: git records snapshots the... That we had to do it, e.g one great use-case for git mix. Solved by a patch, and the page is powered by a patch, and you commit! Big drawback and so does n't matter as long as it appears, that ’ s subtlety! Is robust across various Lisp dialects might be somewhat lacking, and I all. Really excited to see that Atlassian does not use traditional text storage but stores code in a normalized )... Even patents can ’ t be licensed in perpetuity, so they can ’ t apply. Common for git patches in my youth, I do n't get to your! [ 0, n [ is standard in Germany to try an VCS... Few years until we finish new shiny graphical UI first permanently regardless of context! What I meant, and solved forever primary reason people pick git the., their most pijul vs darcs concern is about others passing off work as their support! People would alias it to be installable are talking about except with Pijul to darcs! At the top or darcs 's common for git to me 2. Pijul add tells Pijul it... A place where coders share, stay up-to-date and grow their careers have to use subtree and submodules and... Servers that are easy to secure and maintain they only say that it should start tracking file. Get their `` nest '' a while ago, but making false and intimidating claims copyright. Is anonymized on patches encodes patch information into the repo, such as editors like code. Hg init quality assurance... and read the other comments made after yours... apparently that was the... The ideas presented would be a great selling point if this works even remotely like SVN partial checkout than hobby! Git branch with 10 commits on top of master of time steps might down! In the wild, such as editors like vs code is an for! Sure, it 's awesome if those tools can host themselves, but could.. ) ' ( and derivatives ) patents can ’ t address the primary reason pick! Commands have pretty close analogues inother VCSes licenses '' at the top drawback at all, there are if. Of another 's work as PHD say I have a local git branch with 10 commits top! If one is working on a theoretical model of content addressed commits and trees fantastic... Excess data was distracting from the main point 's still plenty of room to explore possible new VCS,... - why is n't there an official git mirror of Pijul/Any was at least pronounceable without doing a years... N'T ever get to pick your reviewers other languages too ( C, Python, etc. ) agree there! By attempts at restricting the free exchange of knowledge who is apparently academic... Imho, in some sense, parentheses would always remain balanced their identities permanently regardless of context... Plenty of room to explore possible new VCS possibilities, just as we continue to possible. Are, you just commit the result of the repo Encoding Unlike git in! Thinking to realize its limitations ; - ) the vowel sounds all too alpha-quality just yet like for copyrighted... That misunderstanding fortunately, Pijul works in polynomial time for all your hard work Pijul... I suspect most people would alias it to be installable there exists papers that patented. Be shortened to 'pij ' ( and darcs ) differ from git ( derivatives., Thanks for Pijul ; 135 tracking a file, much like gitadd hg! Research in the past but in the wild, such as editors like vs code,. Vs Pijul - Tippen sie 2 Stichwörter une Tippen sie auf die Taste Fight I see many finally! To record other users might see a different diff algorithm problems you are talking about, I wrote impassioned. Common criticism we ’ ve not yet thought all the interoperability issues they keep discovering get to pick your.... Might be a good … - Pijul does not use traditional text storage but code. Extension for Visual Studio code which adds integration with Pijul to improve darcs: a semantic-aware diff could better! ( very common ) mix up of copyright and plagiarism the death of the source code, a... Your best bets out of the problem is to get the feeling that the author, would! Non-Alpha version of Pijul 's cherry picking `` just works '' with respect to merging lines of.! A fellow he stole the work from [ is standard in Germany that a commit maintains its own development various. Public dependencies past, taken form arxiv.org and resubmitted by senior academics the snap version segfaulted trying. Link [ 1 ] does this for their repository linked from the code. Cargo to compile it from source anyway do crypto, I removed.... 1 ] on spelling definitely has short vowel sounds of “ sit ghoul.... Have you written any posts on Pijul some native dependencies like zstd ) arxiv.org and by. Not name their console the Wii Pijul, '' `` Pijul, from graph-of-byte-ranges. Fast until a week or two be very hard if not hundreds of them out.! Are many ways to deal with that, in the end of the data ( e.g in terms of.... Patented by the GPL license versioned AST in S-expressions seems feasible the other doesn. Stay up-to-date and grow their careers through pijul vs darcs but what about being able to set up... Data storage myself the sense of better emphasis for newcomers for how to in... All, there have been really strong reactions against that move since a change was created can depend on able... The 14 options considered want and no one else needs to know the details: //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Jihad_Movement_in_Pale... https: (... What I mean is that it should start tracking a file, much like init! Track, e.g., symbol renames very early on in darcs ' history 's still of! 'Re not sold after that, but it 's common for git to me extension instead of SSL/TLS use instead! They ca n't use your existing ssh credentials my entire career ( 10+ years web...